The Anonymous Attacks Have Begun
Anybody receive an email with this?
This is dirty campaigning at its best and the race for mayor has just begun!
For years now our city has been inundated with unethical campaigning often funded by dark/developer money through political action committees (PACs). This is a problem. I am not for or against Ed Pope, but I am against unethical and unfair campaigning.
Here are the facts:
– Ed Pope was a school teacher in Orange County for 30 years or more. He taught social studies.
– Ed Pope won Teacher of the Year.
– Ed Pope has lived in the same house for over 45 years in Irvine.
– Ed Pope’s wife was also a school teacher/counselor.
– Ed Pope is an army veteran.
Let’s be sure to question what we read. See who the ads are funded by. Check to see if the source is anonymous. Click on the links. Meet the candidates. Do some research, so we don’t fall prey to the filth trying to influence our city. We need to ensure we make the best decision for our city’s future this November.
For some history:
From 2014:
https://voiceofoc.org/2014/11/campaign-spending-takes-a-complex-route-in-irvine/
From 2016:
https://www.ocregister.com/2016/11/02/11-million-in-pac-money-flows-into-irvine-elections/
https://www.irvineliving.org/single-post/2018/03/01/What-We-Know-About-the-VoteNow-Action-PAC
51 Comments
Monte Taylor
August 12, 2018 at 11:56 amThis Ed Pope is the one that deceived unknowing Irvine voters by his totally deceiving campaign slogan “Save the Veterans Cemetery” ruse!! HE destroyed Veterans chances of getting our VA Cemetery with this lie. Don’t let this person get a vote, a penny, or any support of any kind whatsoever, unless you support this type of person who is dishonest and deceiving.
Jaci Woods
August 12, 2018 at 1:30 pmEd Pope, Chair of Save the Cemetery (at the original site as originally planned and approved) spearheaded the gathering of almost 20,000 signatures (needed 12,000) and thus got “No on Measure B” on the ballot and then prevailed “No on Measure B” on June 6, 2018. The voters spoke with 63% voting “No on Measure B.” The City Council then switched and said it’s too expensive…the monies were already earmarked: Irvine contribution of approximately $38M, together with funds from The Great Park (also earmarked over a year ago) and in addition, the State of California will maintain the Veterans Cemetery into perpetuity. I believe the developer FivePoint wants/needs that 125 acres along Irvine Blvd in order to build approximately 812,000 sf mixed use, putting tens of thousands more cars on the roads…the “switch the cemetery to El Toro Y or it doesn’t get built at all” is just nonsense. It’s a further stall. The voters said “No on Measure B ” and it’s time Irvine City Council does as the voters want. [When my USMC husband was shipping out to go to Vietnam in 5/1969 (they were pulling troops back and he went to Okinawa instead) he didn’t stop and say, maybe this will be too expensive.]
Monte Taylor
August 12, 2018 at 6:31 pmEd Pope LIED!!!!!!!! Most Irvine residents that signed those petitions did so by ‘strong arm’ tactics by PAID non Irvine resident out of state petition signer gatherers with a ruse called “Save the Veterans Cemetery”!!
Most any one would actually, without knowing they’re being misled and lied to, would “think” that saving the Veterans Cemetery was a good and honorable thing, thus signed the petition being misled! Getting voters to take this to the next level ALL based upon a TOTAL LIE and misleading statement of “SAVE”!
It was ANYTHING but saving ANY chance of a cemetery. NOW look at what we have. We were ready to actually begin building and his initiative TOTALLY halted and for that matter, ENDED our chance for a Veterans Cemetery FOREVER.
If one is stupid enough to buy into his lies, then you are one of those that screwed ALL Veterans of EVER having a VA Cemetery in Irvine. Proof will come and you will see the truth that we will NEVER have a VA Cemetery now, and the reason? ED POPE. Truth will prevail, although our VA Cemetery is lost due to his lies so unfortunately!!
And just to make it clear, I’m nobody but a resident of Irvine and a Vietnam Veteran. I don’t belong to any party, a member of any city council or any association of, an employee or even know any employee of any developer. JUST a citizen that SEES right thru the lies of ED POPE who screwed me and every United States VETERAN out of our cemetery forever!!!!!!
Every organization, including the VFW (who Pope tried to get voters to believe were behind him by using a made up letter from the VFW, and who ALSO threatened to SUE HIM over his lying post about the VFW supporting him, and telling him NOT to use the VFW letter he purported was supporting him, to be taken off his propaganda) including the DAV (Disable American Veterans of Orange County) DID NOT SUPPORT his lies and deceit he used toward Irvine Voters.
It’s so sad that someone can come up with such a catch phrase that most uninformed voters would ‘think’ actually supports Veterans could be used to do JUST THE OPPOSITE of supporting our VA Cemetery. Anyone on earth with integrity and honesty would never mislead voters USING the Veterans in a total lie and deceit USING Veterans this way!
But YOUR ED POPE did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill Cook
August 13, 2018 at 8:55 pmAll that you state about Ed Pope amounts to not much when it comes to the Veterans Cemetery.
Here are another few facts:
1. Ed Pope had nothing to do with the “(at the original site as originally planned and approved)”. He was not a participant with the Veterans of the OCVMP, he was not in the meetings were the site was selected, he did nothing to move the site forward from 2014 on. NOTHING. Ed, Robb, Vassos, McGill, et al of ‘savetheveteranscemetery’ are FNGs that appeared after 2017, all MIA when the work was being done.
2. Another fact “(at the original site as originally planned and approved)” – was not planned, since 2014 never a city commission, never a council vote to transfer the land to the state, never a state approval (only a Concept Plan), never a VA approval. All fiction. There is NOTHING for the Planning Commission to now review because none ever existed. There was no state construction legislation, no “$30M state grant” (which implies the state is sending funds to the city?), no $38M from the city, and the VA $10M is only a place in the VA Cemetery grant priority list.
3. If as Ed says we were “just days before construction was scheduled to begin.” then please tell us what exactly was that date and what was the plan? Must be about a year ago since the “scheme delayed the project for a year”. How was it funded? Be truthful now.
4 There is no “already-approved Great Park property”, as there never have been any actual approvals. And the ARDA is not in the great park. As the Judge ruled, “false and misleading” descriptios. Attested as true by “real Irvine veterans’ in the ballot statements. Did they knowingly LIE?
5. Why will Irvine spend from a great park fund on a site NOT in the great park?
6 Why will the city Irvine spend to build a California State Veterans Cemetery? It will not be reimbursable,you must realize
Bill Cook Chairman OCVMP
Parker
August 13, 2018 at 4:33 pmMonte Taylor – you speak the truth. My husband signed. Then researched a little. Was disgusted by the lies and went to city hall to rescind his vote. Most who signed that petition actually were told that if they did not sign then there would be no Cemetery. Shame on Ed Pope and Larry Agran for deceiving the Irvine voters. Beware – there is more of this to come as the campaign progresses.
Parker
August 13, 2018 at 4:46 pmSomething good came from if all. Because of what happened in Irvine with Agran and Pope’s paid by the signature petitioners a bill went to Sacramento that passed. Paid by the signature petitioners are no longer legal in this state.
Monte Taylor
August 14, 2018 at 8:20 amTo reply to Mr. Cook (I think this is in response to my post?? – if not so, then some of my comments don’t apply but just not sure, but.
First, a bunch of acronyms I (and maybe I’m the only Irvine resident who doesn’t know) have not a clue so please define:
OCVMP
FNG
MIA
ARDA
Based upon what I ‘think’ this response is about, and please correct me if I was unable to discern the meaning, but that Ed Pope is nothing more than an Irvine resident? Never took park in a single thing from a City or County or State perspective to do anything to help the VA Cemetery come to fruition? His “save the veterans cemetery” ploy was taken to court over false statements (what I had heard during this campaign over his cemetery ruse) so proven to have misled voters?
AND, if I understand this reply, it ‘sounds’ since 2014, the City of Irvine, or any parts of it’s organization (committees, etc.), did not, nor ever have had ANY plans OF EVER doing ANYTHING to have a Veterans Cemetery built on Irvine City property? And, of all this talk about the Great Park having a Veterans Cemetery, there was never any monies set aside (as all Irvine residents were led to believe whether or not they wanted a cemetery, in the Great Park, or not in the Great Park) by the City to EVER build a VA Cemetery, anywhere, ever? I think this post says this?
If I understood all this too, and if these are factual and correct statements as I’ve interpreted them, then the City of Irvine TRULY doesn’t give a damn about ever having a Veterans Cemetery on Irvine City property? All of the Veterans of Orange County then have been totally misled and have been completely and totally disenfranchised!! We, the Veterans of Orange County, have gotten absolutely nothing accomplished during all these years while we were ‘thinking’ the City of Irvine was trying to get our Veterans Cemetery built!!!
That is so unbelievable and if true, then it’s amazing that these politicians can even sleep at night! How could you have done this to us, the Veterans of Orange County, who fought and died for your freedoms???
Something needs to change, and I believe the voters of Orange County once they know the real truths, will at the polls. Unfortunately the politicians who are gone from the past – well.
Bill Cook
August 14, 2018 at 11:33 amMonte, I was responding to the author of this post and to J. Woods.
OCVMP -Orange County Veterans Memorial Park Committee & Foundation Ed Pope and his ‘real Irvine veterans’ non-participants
FNG F..in’ New Guy. A term used by Army grunts in Vietnam with obvious meaning
MIA Missing in Action
ARDA “Amended and Restated Development Agreement” Defines an area specifically excluded from GP by 2010 agreement, which expired December 2017
Janis Morris
August 14, 2018 at 1:07 pmAs a response to the original post I believe the conversation between Mr Cook and Mr Taylor has gone a little sideways.
I understand the history of No on B etc and if that’s the issue you want to discuss, please write an original post. (Although the subject has been discussed in depth over months).
The point of the post by Ms.Lin is that anonymous smearing in political campaigns needs to be “called out”. You may dislike Ed Pope for his role in the cemetery issue, which is fair. Don’t vote for him as is your right. But attacking him for receiving a pension? No. That has no place in the campaign, unless the pension is being funded by an illegal entity. In which case, show the facts and say who you are. Irvine deserves better than anonymous smears.
Dee Fox
August 17, 2018 at 5:53 pmMonte – You are one angry individual and I dare say, you are doing exactly what this post is about. Smear tactics! “Save the Veterans Cemetery” in YOUR mind was a lie? How so? If we let Melissa Fox, Christina Shea, and Donald Wagner have their way…Irvine could have been looking at a Veterans Cemetery over by the El Toro “Y”. Busy, polluted, and noisy! So, yes…I voted to “Save the Veterans Cemetery”…meaning the Great Park site where it was planned, approved, and ready to fund until Melissa Fox changed her vote at the last minute and killed it. And now with the majority of Irvine voters behind the original site, the “Almighty Three” REFUSE to listen to the residents. It looks as though FivePoint Communities wants that site real bad. And since we know MELISSA FOX, CHRISTINA SHEA, and DONALD WAGNER are being bankrolled by this developer, the Veterans and residents lose out. The “greedy” three is who you should direct your anger towards because these are the FACTS!
Dee Fox
August 17, 2018 at 6:22 pmParker – I heard Melissa Fox and family were obstructing the petitioners and making rude comments. One of the “allegations” was Melissa Fox told a woman that if she signed this petition there is a good chance that her husband may have to be dug up later down the road if the City is not able to fund the rest of the cemetery at the Great Park site. But that was an “allegation”. Just like your “allegations”. To spread rumors about someone just because you favor someone else is, in fact, a lie. I heard that allegation about Melissa but it has not been verified so I would not report it as fact. If you want to be believed, talk about the person you endorse without using someone else as the excuse. Your candidate should be able to run on their own merits. Smearing someone is not the way to get your point across.
Monte Taylor
August 17, 2018 at 8:09 pmYou bet I’m ANGRY!!! We want our VA Cemetery! NOBODY gets it do you? I’m not here taking any sides either. I don’t favor anyone but WHO GETS US our VA CEMETERY – NOW, NOT decades from now or never as now as it looks.
All I know is that we were apparently ready to go with the Strawberry Fields (you know “busy, polluted, and noisy” – REALLY?), which means we would get our Cemetery, soon.
BUT, someone decided to run a ‘campaign’ to stop that and completely hold our VA Cemetery all up, now meaning that we will probably never get a VA Cemetery in Irvine. Because all you have to do is look at Google Maps Satellite view of your ‘pristine’ El Toro spot, and you will see that many buildings and acres of asphalt tarmac needs to be pulled up, then environmental studies done (and I know what will be found as spending many years in the Air Force as a pilot seeing all our planes leaking jet fuel 24 / 7 while not in the air flying, onto those tarmacs did to the environment) means all that then will have to be cleaned up, and THEN and ONLY THEN will you ACTUALLY begin to be able to start building anything (your “Shovel Ready” spot – lie)! And being that it is a federal VA Cemetery you won’t be able to go out and get some mom & pop construction outfit to build it, but a “big” (OMG I used that horrible word)! developer to actually construct the Veterans Cemetery for us.
I cannot make it any clearer, we as Veterans want our VA Cemetery. And that does not mean do everything that holds that up or ignore us. You’d like it appears, to ‘tie’ me to some name or whom I’m endorsing!!! HOGWASH!!! I’m not saying I endorse a single person EXCEPT the one that gets us our Cemetery. If it is you Dee, I’ll vote for you in a heartbeat! You see, I don’t give a darn who the heck it is, left, right, transgender, someone with hives all over their body, or the man in the flipping Moon!!! WE JUST WANT OUR VETERANS CEMETERY NOW, not years from now or never!
You all want to make this political! How in the heck does our VA Veterans Cemetery have a darn thing to do with politics??? But that’s what all of you have made it. What it IS, and as I’ve said before, Nobody in Irvine cares one single bit about us Veterans and the ABSOLUTE proof is just what you see, delays with petitions, ignoring us, now no money available, making this a political thing, EVERYTHING you all can do to make darn sure we as the Veterans of this county who fought and died for YOU – to never have our VA Cemetery! It screams every word of this last sentence! Shame on ALL of you who fit this mold.
And, It seems that no matter what I say, someone will twist it, but this is SO SIMPLE – WE WANT OUR VETERANS CEMETERY and not years from now. Do I need to say it in a different way to make it ANY CLEARER?????????????
WHAT PART OF “WE WANT OUR VETERNS CEMETERY” DO YOU, OR ANYONE, NOT UNDERSTAND?
Parker
August 17, 2018 at 8:48 pmDee. I was nearly stating a fact. I am not endorsing candidates. Not allegations. Facts. Agran paid $12.50 per signature. Anyone can see that is unethical. They would tell the voter anything to get that signature. I spoke quite honestly with one of them. You can say we all lie. That’s fiine. Anyone that does not agree with you you say lies. The state senate listened to an Irvine citizen (among others who had similar situations in their cities) and put end to this process. Why do you have s problem with that?
Parker
August 17, 2018 at 9:01 pmAnd Dee. – so you don’t think save the Veterans Cemetery was misleading? Or that petitioners told voters if they did not sign that a Cemetery would not be built? After the judge decided that was a false statement the “in the Great Park” phrase was added. Even though the judge also determined that In the Great Park was also not a true statement. Get ready for more deceitful tactics in this campaign. Should be very interesting. Also I heard it was the petitioners that were telling people that veterans will be dug up and moved. Not Mellisa Fox. But I did not mention that as there is no proof. Where is yours that Melissa said that?
Parker
August 17, 2018 at 9:19 pmAlso. I do NIOT agree with any smear campaigning!! It’s low brow and and shows a true lack of character. But that’s how Irviine politics rolls and has for two decades at least. Let’s just see who can keep their head above it. They will earn major points in the eyes of OC Irvine voters who are tired of this nastiness.
Bill Cook
August 18, 2018 at 10:24 amDee Fox “…the Great Park site where it was planned, approved, and ready to fund.. ” is just Liss-in-the-wind fiction.
NOT in the great park, NEVER planned or approved, never ready to fund. No docs for the planning commission to find or review.
What was that “weeks away from construction” schedule date? Can’t recall?
**** If there ever was any hope of getting it done sooner, we of OCVMP (where the NO on B ARDA FNGs were MIA) would of been all over it. ****
But nope, and then along comes Pope. Larry Pope and the ‘real Irvine veterans’ killed the legislated, funded, shovel-ready Veterans Cemetery on MCAS El Toro at Strawberry Field. With lies they are proud of.
Now it is his sole qualification to run for Mayor.
Oh, Irvine!
Dan Chmielewski
August 21, 2018 at 11:20 amThe term “Fucking New Guy” (FNG) is a derogatory term, made popular within combatants, military chaplains, and combat medics of the U.S. Army and the U.S. Marine Corps deployed to South East Asia during the Vietnam War, usually to refer to newcomers.
There was a plan for a cemetery at ARDA; Sharon Quirk-Silva secured $30 million from the state. The city had $38 million. There was $10 million from the feds. CalVet had approved the ARDA site. And it all got yanked. You must have forgotten your own comments to the City Council in praise of ARDA for the cemetery — it’s on video.
The freeway site was no funded; there was a promise from FivePoint for $10 million for Phase One but the freeway site was not funded.
Ed Pope’s qualification for mayor is his years as a teacher, his long term residency in Irvine, his military experience and his ability to listen to the voters of Irvine over that of developers.
deefox
October 28, 2018 at 10:19 pmMonty, Bill & Parker – Melissa Fox and Christina Shea KILLED the Veterans Cemetery. Why couldn’t they just leave the cemetery site alone and just get it built? GREED, that’s why. We all know that FOX received $10,000 from Patrick Strader to change her vote on the cemetery and SHEA’s re-election campaign was funded by FivePoint. So who is benefitting from NOT having the cemetery at the original site? And why haven’t Melissa or Christina talked about the Veterans Cemetery at any of the council meetings lately? Melissa campaigned on the promise to the residents of a Veterans Cemetery but what is she doing about it now? Probably trying to dig herself out from the issues she created with the Irvine Community Land Trust. Another big issue! MELISSA FOX and CHRISTINA SHEA have created nothing but drama and costly litigation issues the past two years. Working with a registered lobbyist who has paid them substantial amounts of money and refusing to inform the public of where City money is going is of great concern. How much are we giving away to developers so these two can profit? Your attack on Ed Pope is ridiculous. What is his motivation? Is he being paid by someone? If he is elected Mayor, he WILL build a Veterans Cemetery! Why not give the guy a chance to prove himself? He did a great job with Measure “B”. And what are we looking at right now? Another two years of councilmembers that could care less about a cemetery, could care less about all the AirBnB’s filtering in our neighborhoods, could care less about our traffic situation, could care less about overcrowded schools, could care less about overdevelopment, could care less about providing affordable housing, and could care less about what the residents want if it conflicts with what a developer wants. If you had an organization that needed money from the City and you came before the Council to ask for funding, would you also be able to vote on the motion for your request? Obviously “NO”. But MELISSA FOX and CHRISTINA SHEA did just that when they asked the City at the last council meeting for office space at an affordable housing location that was stipulated to be used ONLY for affordable housing. They wanted the space for their land trust office. Remember, this land trust is no longer part of the City … something Patrick Strader, Melissa Fox and Christina Shea decided on when they changed this organization’s By-Laws. So, they requested it, they voted on it … and it passed with WAGNER, FOX and SHEA approving it. Tell me you don’t have a problem with this? They are abusing their power as city council members and should be held accountable for their actions. If Ed Pope is elected, he will not let this continue. They will have to step down from either the City Council or the land trust because of a conflict of interest with Patrick Strader who is a benefit to them financially and interferes with the welfare of this City.
tsuru
October 28, 2018 at 11:32 pmWow Dee. Well, FIRST my name is spelled MontE (no Y thank you, so get literate and look at my post and name spelling) since you clearly don’t seem to get much of anything correct.
AND, really, I am responsible for killing any Veterans Cemetery?!! REALLY?????!!!!!!!! You are unbelievable!!
I am a Vietnam Veteran and ALL I’ve said and done anywhere, on this site, or in any conversations, is to PUSH for GETTING OUR VETERANS CEMETERY! NOW, not months or years or never with stopping our Cemetery flat cold! I’m personally convinced Dee, that you and all your followers don’t give a hoot about Veterans or our Cemetery! It’s all about you wanting power over a developer, or a person, hatred, or whatever, and you’ve now left us military Veterans left out and USED as NOTHING BUT PAWNS! That is EVIL.
Most of you are not even Veterans. You go on and on about some family member but WE, WE, WE Dee, FOUGHT AND NEARLY DIED IN VIETNAM, WORLD WAR I, WORLD WAR II, KOREA, IRAQ, AND SAUDI ARABIA just for YOU Dee!! YOU DID NOT fight or put your life on the line anywhere or anytime Dee. You do nothing but run your mouth and accuse me of killing the cemetery!! Don’t know what you are smoking?
We as Veterans who fought to give people like you the right to have the freedoms you have, is why you even have the right to say anything, anywhere, as here.
AND NOW, I’m being accused (oh yes, that means in America now you go directly to prison, no investigation, no jury, no judge, just an accusation and you are GUILTY AND SENTENCED TO PRISON AND DEATH!) by this Dee. Who throws out completely and totally BASELESS LIES saying that I “KILLED” the Veterans Cemetery!
And now you have a fight. I was going to just keep my mouth shut, as I’ve done for quite some time now, letting ignorance take its course and have everyone think that you made the right decision and vote in ignorance. Then after November 5th when you all begin to see the real truth that Veterans will now NEVER see the light of day of a cemetery in Irvine be the first to tell and show people like you Dee how your lies screwed every single military Veteran of Orange County!
For your information, there is no more room to be buried in Los Angeles VA Cemetery, no more room in Riverside. I sit here typing this with an ascending aortic aneurysm that is very close to rupture and could burst at any time and if so I will die. Thousands of Veterans are reading this right now also knowing that we don’t have many more years on this planet. And we also know that our families will have no place to bury us anywhere even close to Orange County, our home. So for us, the Veterans Cemetery isn’t about developers, or mayors, or you Dee (for sure!), or anyone else, BUT OUR RIGHT to what we put our lives on the line for. And if fighting to get a cemetery is now become some ‘evil’ thing that one is accused of “KILLING”, then all those who don’t care about Veterans and want to use us as pawns, do not deserve the freedoms we fought for. You should leave OUR America, and go somewhere else where you will not insult Veterans.
DON’T YOU EVER, EVER, EVER ACCUSE ME OF KILLING ANY VETERANS CEMETERY!
deefox
October 29, 2018 at 2:38 amDirect your hostility towards MELISSA FOX and CHRISTINA SHEA. Your response is full of hate and no understanding of what I stated. Did I say YOU killed the Veterans Cemetery? NO! And I come from a family of VETS (I know, you don’t care) but don’t play all high and mighty with me. MELISSA FOX and CHRISTINA SHEA, along with DONALD WAGNER, KILLED the Veterans Cemetery when they refused to accept the majority vote and fund the cemetery. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. Because the people didn’t want a deal that these three struck with a developer, you are blaming the people? 63%. And you do not represent all the Veterans! Sorry but you obviously are in the minority. The council is suppose to support the majority and they didn’t….if they had, we would have a cemetery being built. So you are barking up the wrong tree ….. go to the City Council like we did and beg for them to build it, regardless of the cost!
tsuru
October 29, 2018 at 12:22 pmDee, my hostility is that you USE my name when I have NEVER written anything here or anywhere supporting those that you seem to have this hatred for! NEVER. BUT, you use my name in making these statements. REMOVE MY NAME!
ALL I have ever DONE on this or ANY site has been to say, WE (And you are NOT one of them) VETERANS WANT OUR CEMETERY NOW AND NOT IN YEARS OR NEVER!!! What part of any of those words do you not understand Dee???????????????
Why is that SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Hard for YOU to understand?????????????????
AND what part of any of those words says that I support ANY mayor, councilperson, to be mayor, to be councilperson, or any developer, or to be developer, or any other label you want to put on anything whatsoever??????????? Where Dee????????????
You associate someones name as you did, but you don’t get that do you. Literacy comes with knowledge and you don’t have it when it comes to pasting a name to something they are NOT associated with and defaming me with it.
Again Dee, I am ONLY a Veteran, and ALL I WANT is our Veterans Cemetery NOW. But now it’s been delayed, YET AGAIN, after years of trying to get it. And that now in your sick mind ties me to everyone you hate! And that is not “high and mighty” it is FACT. I am a Veteran and YOU Dee are NOT. That is a FACT. So don’t throw your high and mighty crap back at me as you are the one acting such, and you are NOT a Veteran so you don’t understand seeing death right in front of you and wanting our Veterans Cemetery NOW! Nor will you EVER understand what that feels like – or be deserving for having done that!
But your hatred can’t see any of that. There is plenty of blame to go around, but all my statements have always been about wanting a Veterans Cemetery NOW still stand, not one single word is wrong or unsupported. And, if YOU have a problem then I say YOU go take it up with them and LEAVE MY NAME the hell out of it.
Clearly in your mind anyone like myself who wants our Veterans Cemetery NOW are wrong and you in your hatred are right. And, again, YOU are not a Veteran, no matter if your entire lineage were! And, I am not at all in any minority whatsoever. I happen to belong to several Veterans organizations who ALL WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT THE CEMETERY NOW without a single other pretense!! You, you are only a citizen of Irvine and know nothing about knowing high numbers of Veterans like I do Dee because IF you did I’d see you at all those meetings of Veterans EVERY MONTH.
People like you, who are NOT Veterans, and people who were misled with deceit, are those standing on your bandwagon right now telling US, the VETERANS, how WE are wrong for wanting our Veterans Cemetery NOW, and YOU are right? Pathetic!!
Pull out your 62% too and you’ll find MANY of those innocent voters were misled with “Save the Veterans Cemetery” BS. That crap line deceived honest caring persons who thought they were supporting Veterans and getting us our Veterans Cemetery NOW.
I went around to several of the petition gathering places back then, and asked questions and listened, for well over an hour at each place, and some I even went back to, and the lies that were stated trying to make it sound as if they really wanted us to get a Veterans Cemetery spewed out of those petition gatherers (see below) mouths. I asked hundreds of those citizens who signed, what they believed they were signing. I was that person out in the parking lot approaching folks after they’d signed. Every single one of them simply ‘THOUGHT’ they were signing to support us Veterans get a cemetery SOON. Not knowing anything more about the Veterans Cemetery fight that has been going on for years!
And by the way Dee, PAID petition gatherers are ILLEGAL in the state of California (and your folks were taken to court over that and LOST in Sacramento for it) to get votes! And that campaign also illegally used the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) presenting a letter to potential petition signers (voters) when the VFW NEVER authorized that, AND, in writing to them, had demanded that their ‘letter of support’ be removed as the VFW Never sent that letter they used. Which of course was never taken down but left to make it sound as if the VFW supported the petitions causes. A Total Lie and total deceit! Plenty of dirty laundry Dee, but that is OK when it is what you want, right?
And, I have another question, WHO paid for all those petitioners (who were paid against California State law – illegally) ballot signatures? – of what some $19, per signature???? Someone who is supposedly a retired school teacher?? Really, wow, didn’t know their pensions were so filthy high to pay HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS out of their personal checking account for gathering thousands of signatures. Do the math, it’s no small number. If you can’t do it in your head, pull out a calculator.
That’s a ton of money when it comes to my retirement and sure wish I had that kind of money to just use for this as if I didn’t have monthly bills and living expenses, just hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend to pay for illegally gathered votes!
So maybe there is dirty money coming from other sources too? I don’t know. I’m not stating any person / persons are behind that money as I don’t know where those THOUSANDS of dollars came from. It’s formed in a question NOT an accusation as I do not know (you see, I don’t condemn and put to death on accusations, only questions come out), but it didn’t grow on trees either, and it delayed our Veterans Cemetery YET AGAIN and quite possibly forever! And again, nothing wrong with any of that either right Dee?
Part of this whole thing Dee is that so many of you (not JUST you) are just getting involved with the Veterans Cemetery issue. Our fight for a Veterans Cemetery has been going on for years and there are so many to blame. And now, YET AGAIN, it’s been delayed!!!!!!!! And you wonder why Veterans like myself are so unbelievably frustrated and keep stating WE WANT OUR VETERANS CEMETERY – NOW?!!!!!!!!!!!
This is why so many of us Veterans are sick and tired of all those who just keep finding another way to postpone our Veterans Cemetery and just using us as pawns, wasting yet more time, paying for signatures, and pushing our Veterans Cemetery out yet further.
Why I say none of you seem to give a hoot about us, the Veterans NOW, who are ALIVE, not descendants of Veterans, as we are the ones who NEED the cemetery NOW. We have been fighting to get our Veterans Cemetery, not delay it yet again with a petition, and now that almost certainly the final dagger of losing all those years fight. As I said before, EVIL.
MARK MY WORDS Dee!!! MARK MY WORDS, and see if EVERYTHING I’ve said here will come true now. We, the Veterans of Orange County, have lost our Veterans Cemetery here in Irvine, because of ALL OF YOU who have had ANYTHING to do with standing in its way!!!!
So take my name off EVERY ONE of your posts where it should NEVER EVER have been – as ALL I have EVER done is stand up and defend us Veterans (those Veterans ALIVE, who fought in those wars and saw death right in front of us, not you, DESERVE) getting OUR Veterans Cemetery NOW!!!
deefox
October 29, 2018 at 7:02 pmMonte Taylor and tsuru – are you one in the same? You replied to me because I did not spell your first name correctly. Regardless, I am not associating you with FOX and SHEA. I was explaining the facts of why Irvine does not have a Veterans Cemetery and you went off on me. I will say it again, the…
deefox
October 29, 2018 at 7:18 pmVeteran’s Cemetery would be in the process of being built today, if it wasn’t for MELISSA FOX, CHRISTINA SHEA, and DONALD WAGNER. The efforts that were made to fight to keep this Land was amazing! Many, many people worked hard to fight for the original site that was planned and approved by CalVet!…
Bill Cook
October 29, 2018 at 7:52 pmdeefox, yes indeed the SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA VETERANS CEMETERY would be under construction today – on the Strawberry field – had it not been for you lying Agranistas. Strawberry Field remains funded state law. There is no other.
The “original” ARDA was a legislative placeholder to pass AB1453,…
deefox
October 29, 2018 at 11:35 pmBILL COOK – I didn’ see you out there fighting for your cause. It’s a shame you have to give your finger to people that do.
Bill Cook
October 30, 2018 at 8:38 amYou missed a lot deefox. Chumley and Liss sure saw me. Finger applies to you as well.
deefox
October 30, 2018 at 9:52 amYep….and YOU were probably one of the reasons why Measure B failed! You couldn’t run on your own merits so you had to disrupt those that did. You are a liability to your organization and I am sure that is why Veterans are distancing themselves from you. You are a disgrace!
Bill Cook
October 30, 2018 at 1:03 pmdeefox, are you actually chumley?
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 5:12 pmDee, NOBODY is distancing themselves from Bill whatsoever! Veterans are behind those, like Bill, who do everything they can to get our Veterans Cemetery NOW! You and your cronies are the ones that delayed the Veterans Cemetery once again, and you call that “FOR” the Veterans Cemetery? You call…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:17 pmYou call that “Save”!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BS!!!!!!!!!!
You are truly the one who is a disgrace as you are the one who delayed the Veterans Cemetery, YET AGAIN now. That is absolutely FACT as we are now more months down the road with NOTHING. And, BTW, not sure what planet you’re on, but none of…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:17 pmus who ACTUALLY WANT the Veterans Cemetery NOW “ran” on anything – whatever the hell you mean by that anyway???! Bill, or ANY Veteran didn’t “run” anything!! You smoking something again Dee?
Bill and other Veterans just like him only want our Veterans Cemetery NOW. And for that, each of…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:19 pmus have to be berated with your accusations and mis-identifications. WE WANT our Veterans Cemetery NOW. You, Dee do everything to DESTROY any chance of us Veterans of every having it. Why, because you don’t give a damn about Veterans! It’s all about your hatred for developers and city employees…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:20 pmPROOF? Yep, Dee, if you REALLY cared about Veterans and were not so hung up on your hatred, you’d be standing with ALL of us Veterans and doing everything you could to HELP us get our Veterans Cemetery NOW!! But nope, you’ve made sure that it got postponed out into the future yet again, after…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:20 pmall the other obstacles in our Veterans way, but supporting some STUPID measure ONLY because of your hatred!! THAT IS FACT ALSO Dee.
And by the way, leave us Veterans ALONE who fought and many died for you with your horrible and disrespectful statements! Take your hate to another…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:21 pmplanet!
Veterans, REAL Veterans, and those who REALLY care and support Veterans, do EVERYTHING they can to get our Veterans Cemetery NOW. That is FACT. And another FACT is that your agenda pushed our Veterans Cemetery out yet more months – FACT, FACT, FACT, FACT Dee – but I’m sure you don’t…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 8:23 pmhave the literacy level to ever begin to see that because of all your hatred you hold inside.
Anyone who hates like you cannot be a happy person. I will pray for you.
deefox
October 30, 2018 at 9:55 pmWOW! Tsuru or Monte you really need to calm down. Bottom line, you are the minority…the Irvine voters, and that includes many, many Veterans, want the Veteran’s Cemetery at the Great Park site. NOT over by the El Toro “Y”. If you really really care about having a Veteran’s Cemetery in Irvine, you…
deefox
October 30, 2018 at 10:06 pmshould be doing something about it. ED POPE, JACI WOODS, and FRANK McGILL have made the commitment to funding the Veteran’s Cemetery at the original site if they are elected. Do you have a plan? I haven’t heard you mention one in your rants…so I suggest you get over the past and get on board with…
deefox
October 30, 2018 at 10:07 pmthe people who will make it happen. After all, isn’t that everyone’s goal!?
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:16 pmI’m to “calm down” – REALLY Dee!! You want me to just say I don’t care about our Veterans Cemetery NOW and just “calm down”, LIKE YOU CARE RIGHT?!!
Wow, you are unbelievably egotistical!! I’ve said OVER AND OVER I don’t give a damn where you put our Veterans Cemetery NOW! We just…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:17 pm.. WANT IT AND WE VETERANS DESERVE IT NOW!! Not months yet later like you, who doesn’t even happen to be a Veteran, want.
And, we’ve been down this path before Dee if you want me to repeat it I can, but those literate folks who know how to read can read what I’ve already told you Dee. Of…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:18 pm…
those 62 % petition signers, most all were deceived with lies and VFW bogus LIES of support, etc. They all unwittingly were talked into believing the lies that were told to them ALL believing they were doing the right thing to support Veterans. Sad as they all ‘believed’ they were doing…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:19 pm…..the Right thing all along being misled. All the while your pathetic side pulled off a deceitful and illegal campaign paying out of state petition signature gatherers to sign your petition, which again, was put to Sacramento and you were told to cease and desist your illegal signature…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:20 pm….gathering.
Total LIES and Total DECEIT!! You just keep trying to twist everything I say into another picture YOU want to paint and NEVER Listening to anything that is said. I’m now frankly believing it’s a waste of time as just a small amount of English literacy is needed to understand…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:21 pm……ANY of what I’ve said. You aren’t worth it Dee, you clearly don’t understand anything. But you’re a self appointed expert you’d like to believe. So believe your fairy tale world you live in and continue to try to convince yourself that all the Veterans I speak with at the Veterans…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:21 pm…..Organizations I belong to who 100% want our Veterans Cemetery NOW, are just full of crap, liars (like your side) and really don’t at all want a Veterans Cemetery NOW! Yeah Dee LOL
THAT IS FACT AND YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT BUT PULLING BS LINES LIKE THIS FROM SOME…
tsuru
October 30, 2018 at 10:24 pm… AIRSPACE ON ANOTHER PLANET. Get in touch with Reality Dee! NOTHING CAN GET THROUGH TO YOU, NOTHING as YOU ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING EVEN THE SIMPLEST OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
deefox
October 31, 2018 at 12:02 amSoooooo I guess that means you have no plans to help get a Veteran’s Cemetery built in Irvine?
tsuru
October 31, 2018 at 1:40 amNo more wasting my time on ignorance. Dee, TWO options, find a wall in your house and spend the rest of your life spewing out your ignorance at that wall, or two, blow it to the wind my dear. I’m done with you!! Good bye!! LOL. LOL. LOL. LOL
deefox
November 2, 2018 at 11:01 pmSad.
Scott Hansen
August 20, 2019 at 12:06 pmThank you, Branda, for the links to the background articles. Very helpful for research!
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